tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post2133364463604496204..comments2024-03-19T21:41:42.835+01:00Comments on Poemas del río Wang: Citizen Barrel OrganStudiolumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06377777909296284368noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-8464884958984073272012-01-28T18:16:51.890+01:002012-01-28T18:16:51.890+01:00Well, I understood it, but as your last ad hominem...Well, I understood it, but as your last <i>ad hominem</i> question (before the PS) was directed to me, I could not but reply it. I do not know whether I belong to those who understand Okudzhava’s work (including his novels), but I definitely have loved them since my teenager years, so that even now I can sing any of them by heart. In Soviet times even his vinyls were apparently not deemed worthy to be exposed in that sublime shop-window of Soviet culture that was the Gorky bookshop in Budapest, so the only way to listen to them was to wait for our friends studying in Russian universities to take home pirate tape copies of them.<br /><br />The analysis of the último organito is simply bril-li-ant!Studiolumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06377777909296284368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-41834181864261383042012-01-28T17:42:37.439+01:002012-01-28T17:42:37.439+01:00Apropos the last organist and its mystery: Neo-sem...Apropos the last organist and its mystery: <a href="http://www.eltangauta.com/nota.asp?id=163" rel="nofollow">Neo-semiología del El último organito</a> :)<br /><br />Studiolum, of course my irritation with "today's Russian readers" wasn't directed at you, not at all! It is these people who opine about Okudzhava and Evtushenko on the web, apparently without any understanding of either poet's work. I agree, I rarely saw Okudzhava's verse in print. But there were also vinyl disks, and movie soundtracks, and most of all - singing of the friends whenever they got together!MOCKBAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05150628026789690963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-82479951972052546222012-01-27T19:30:30.657+01:002012-01-27T19:30:30.657+01:00Yes, I also checked the etymology from Vasmer, and...Yes, I also checked the etymology from Vasmer, and hesitated for a moment whether to include it entirely, but it would have been too long for a bracket, and then I decided that <i>Scharmante Katherine</i> (which was also translated at that time into Hungarian) should be presented anyway in the history of the barrel organ, so then I will tell about the etymology as well.<br /><br />Checking Vasmer was useful also to dissipate a false etymology I unconsciously fabricated for myself, connecting <i>шарманка</i> with a beautifully singing bird, called in Hungarian <a href="http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A1rm%C3%A1ny" rel="nofollow"><i>sármány</i></a> (whose diminutive form is also <i>sármányka</i>). Another check, this time in the Hungarian Etymological Dictionary, detected that <i>sármány</i> is an archaic composite word ʻsár-mály’, in modern Hungarian ʻsárga mell’: ʻyellow-breasted’.<br /><br />MOCKBA: I’m sorry, but I am no Russian reader as far as it concerns the songs of Okudzhava. I have never read them in print: I only heard and learned by heart, I think, all of them, from noname tapes smuggled from the Soviet Union and given from hand to hand until they became unusable and their music lived on only in our memory.Studiolumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06377777909296284368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-43070390201718268392012-01-27T18:04:27.143+01:002012-01-27T18:04:27.143+01:00шарманка – whose name is an assimilation of the Fr...<i>шарманка – whose name is an assimilation of the French charmante with a Russian diminutive suffix</i><br /><br />While this is ultimately true, I think the details are of interest: the immediate source of the name (according to Vasmer) is the German tune "Scharmante Katherine," because it was often played on such an instrument.<br /><br />A correction: когда под ребра бьют is "when they beat (me) under the ribs."languagehathttp://www.languagehat.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-81504946280246545952012-01-27T17:56:27.606+01:002012-01-27T17:56:27.606+01:00The words hurdy-gurdy conveyed a genuine street-mu...The words hurdy-gurdy conveyed a genuine street-music feel and it was quite nice ... but it just didn't make a good match to Russian usage IMHO.<br /><br />Yes, as I said, the "E. Evtushenko" subtitle of Okudzhava's song misleads even some native speakers. Great many of Okudzhava's verses have dedications in subtitles, but usually the Dative case speaks for itself. Still it irks me that today's Russian readers may be confused about it! Like, come on, don't you know?<br /><br />PS: Organito de la Tarde next ;) ?MOCKBAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05150628026789690963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-56852687757492770412012-01-27T16:14:08.158+01:002012-01-27T16:14:08.158+01:00You are right. It is better to avoid ambiguity, ev...You are right. It is better to avoid ambiguity, even if the term “barrel organ” in this context sounds much less familiar to me than “hurdy-gurdy”. Now I have changed it everywhere.<br /><br />As to Yevtushenko, it was my fault. I was always convinced that the poem was written <i>by</i> him, and I am sure I have also read it like this in more than one place. Already a first search for Евтушенко+Шарманка results in a number of hits indicating him as the author (e.g. <a href="http://classic-online.ru/ru/production/20316" rel="nofollow">here,</a> check the comments as well.) Now I have changed this, too.Studiolumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06377777909296284368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-36356125778281981842012-01-27T15:46:12.196+01:002012-01-27T15:46:12.196+01:00As far as I see, in written English this distincti...<i>As far as I see, in written English this distinction is not so clear-cut: ʻhurdy-gurdy’ is often used for both</i><br /><br />So it might become possible to exacerbate the confusion by applying both words to Russian "sharmanka"? OK, I see your point. But you are breaking new ground here. As far as could see from the web searches, virtually nobody has used "hurdy-gurdy" in this specific context before. For examples searches for "Okudzhava hurdy-gurdy" come back with this post, while "Okudzhava barrel organ" gets you the myriad music links. Likewise you only get this post by searching for "Pirosmani hurdy-gurdy", but you find art by going after "Pirosmani barrel organist".<br /><br />BTW there may be another important clarification about this Okudzhava song, one of my all-time favorites. The way you introduce it, it may appear that the song was written <i>by</i> Evtushenko, rather than dedicated <i>to</i> Evtushenko. Of course the formal grammar rules of the language dictate that the names like Evtushenko remain unchanged in all cases, so some readers could indeed be confused between Nominative and Dative in the Russian text. Still it's easy to disambiguate in English translation!MOCKBAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05150628026789690963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-33483665113990915032012-01-27T10:48:00.032+01:002012-01-27T10:48:00.032+01:00I don't remember for sure organ grinders in my...I don't remember for sure organ grinders in my italian childhood. The images of them I can recall in my mind probably come from literature. <br />I remember wandering accordion players going from courtyard to courtyard. I remember myself throwing some coins from my balcony (sadly, no permission to go down and reach the player). <br />The music of the forbidden accordion was a far and exotic world to me.Effenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-80777454430458917072012-01-27T08:55:57.167+01:002012-01-27T08:55:57.167+01:00There is a short Hungarian WP article for street o...<a href="http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkli" rel="nofollow">There is a short Hungarian WP article</a> for street organ (<i>verkli</i> <= ʻWerkel’ or <i>kintorna</i> <= ʻQuinttonen’, both names indicating its Austrian origin). In Hungary, where the “proper” hurdy-gurdy (<i>tekerőlant</i>) has been very widespread and still in use since the Middle Ages (and now living a new renaissance in urban music!) the two instruments clearly distinguished (although ʻverkli’ is sometimes used for any mechanism with preset music that is sounded by grinding). As far as I see, in written English this distinction is not so clear-cut: ʻhurdy-gurdy’ is often used for both, while ʻstreet organ’/ʻbarrel organ’/ʻroller organ’, as the uncertainty of the terminology also shows, is less in use, that’s why I also prefer the general use of ʻhurdy-gurdy’.<br /><br />I am sure that the tradition of the wandering organ grinder did not die out at once (as it is shown by the quoted article of <i>Вокруг Света</i> speaking about “the last living organ grinder” as late as 1970). But the literature I read about it writes that it significantly fell back in the 1930s, so that the organ grinder going from courtyard to courtyard to play music was not a common scene any more, unlike in Western Europe (or even in the old districts of Budapest in my childhood!)Studiolumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06377777909296284368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-7419214722390208972012-01-27T00:51:21.035+01:002012-01-27T00:51:21.035+01:00Intriguingly, Hungarian wikipedia has an entry for...Intriguingly, Hungarian wikipedia has an entry for the violin-like hurdy-gurdy, but none for box-like mechanical street organ known in Russian as шарманка. The hurdy-gurdy string instrument (called a lyre or sometimes a ryle) is barely known to the Russians, although in the past it has been used by some Ukrainian blind street singers alongside with the more common <i>bandura</i> and <i>kobza</i>. Definitely not the <i>шарманка</i>!<br /><br />Petrushka, with his organ accompaniment and his high-pitched voice modified by a special reed, is definitely a puppet but not the puppeteer (the latter may be called Petrushechnik). <br /><br />And, although I haven't really investigated the timing of the demise of the roller organ and its attendant pet monkey, I couldn't help remembering Galich's wonderful "Manchuria Hills" (aka in memory of Zoschenko), where the action takes place in 1946. The dishonored, railroaded author stops to collect his thoughts in a basement speakeasy, and there is an organ-grinder with a monkey, and their tune is this wonderful and sad turn-of-the-century waltz (which is better known in the West today because of the 17 Hippies, of course)MOCKBAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05150628026789690963noreply@blogger.com