tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post830144074363974192..comments2024-03-19T21:41:42.835+01:00Comments on Poemas del río Wang: Linguistic recordStudiolumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06377777909296284368noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-35004039620479324882014-03-02T23:28:13.323+01:002014-03-02T23:28:13.323+01:00Thanks for reminding me of this great story, Studi...Thanks for reminding me of this great story, Studiolum! I must have forgotten about "the Lutheran belt" completely ... should have recalled it when I recently discovered that one of my cancer families, Lutherans from Pennsylvania with a common German surname, descend from immigrants from Hungary (how strange, I thought, Lutheranism isn't the religion which first comes to mind when you think about historic Hungary). Stranger still, the share genetic footprint with two even larger ethnic German mega-families - but these other families were Catholic and hailed from nearby hamlets in a rural canton of Diekirch in Luxembourg. I have no doubts that the Luxembourgers will turn out to be blood relatives if one sifts through the old parish books ... but could the Austro-Hungarian Lutherans be a branch of the same family tree?MOCKBAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05150628026789690963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-9807366225728652792011-05-20T14:21:40.253+02:002011-05-20T14:21:40.253+02:00/Son of a ... Blogger ate my comment./
I hope I c.../Son of a ... Blogger ate my comment./<br /><br /><i>I hope I can count on your careful look</i><br />Of course, I'd be happy to help. And be sure to let me know if you need demographic data or alike, I know people.<br /><br /><i>It was a Slovak researcher of Slovak dialects in Hungary who told me that the dialect of Csömör/Čemer is nearer to Rusyn/Lemko than most Slovakian dialects.</i><br />Not to speak ill of my colleagues, but to some Slovak dialectologists, the presence of some features (most notably 1SG.PRES. suffix -u instead of -m) is enough to start drawing parallels with Rusyn when in fact this feature is typical of a number of Eastern dialects. Same goes for intelligibility with Ukrainian which, I've always thought, is in this case a function of lexeme choice rather than anything else.<br /><br /><i>they had arrived here from the northeastern Carpathians, above Bardejov</i><br />That would make sense - right above Bardejov is where the Eastern Slovak Lutheran belt starts. Based on historical data, I think I can pin down 3 or 4 most likely candidates. Let me check the data and get back to you.bulbulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14505565281151328789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-35870416634269886592011-05-05T23:05:29.733+02:002011-05-05T23:05:29.733+02:00Thank you very much for cross-checking it. I think...Thank you very much for cross-checking it. I think ručník fits perfectly in this context. I hope I can count on your careful look when publishing futher old Slovak/biblical Czech texts of the village chronicle.<br /><br />No, no Rusyn-speaking Lutherans: that would be just as absurd as Romanian-speaking Calvinists (although these latter did exist for a while in the 16th century and even printed some important books). It was a Slovak researcher of Slovak dialects in Hungary who told me that the dialect of Csömör/Čemer is nearer to Rusyn/Lemko than most Slovakian dialects. Plus, I negotiated the rent of a house for a Russian student of mine and his family in the village. His mother is Ukrainian, so he perfectly spoke both languages, and while he had found Slovak more or less a foreign language when traveling together in Slovakia, in my village he could communicate perfectly with local people, and he told that the reason was that they spoke a dialect much closer to Ukrainian than literary Slovak.<br /><br />At the time I wrote this post and published the first pages of the chronicle on the site of the local Lutheran community, the general conviction of the village’s Slovak community was that they had arrived here from the northeastern Carpathians, above Bardejov (which would also justify their contact with Rusyns in the region of Svidník). As the Lutheran community of the village was hit by a plague in 1740, and in consequence they lost their status of an autonomous parish and were attached as a <i>filia</i> to the nearby Cinkota/Lingota (see on the 1781 map included in the post), we had no registers of births in the village for two centuries. Apparently it was me the first person who, in this February, went to Cinkota to check their earliest registers which clearly showed that the first Slovak settlers were invited to the empty Csömör by its landlord Tamás Beniczky from Dolná Mičiná above Banská Bystrica where a Beniczky castle is still standing. Inspired by this discovery, in March a group of our Slovak folk dancers and folk costume collectors went to Dolná Mičiná where they already found the old cemetery destroyed, but many people remembered that our family names were once common in their village. As a consequence, an agreement of twin towns is now in preparation between our villages.Studiolumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06377777909296284368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-84255158786721875982011-05-05T21:36:58.640+02:002011-05-05T21:36:58.640+02:00Just to be on the safe side, I checked everything ...Just to be on the safe side, I checked everything at my disposal and got nothing, so ručník it is.<br />By the way, there's one detail that had me stumped for a second: Rusyn- or close-to-Rusyn-speaking Lutherans, really? That is literally unheard of and I'm quoting one of the authorities on the ethnic and confessional makeup of Slovakia here :)<br />Were the original immigrants Lutherans, too? Do you have any idea as to where exactly they came from?bulbulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14505565281151328789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-66492580706640152032011-05-04T10:53:48.805+02:002011-05-04T10:53:48.805+02:00Yes, you are right: it must be rather ručník, as ‘...Yes, you are right: it must be rather ručník, as ‘j’ is overall written as ‘g’. And it is not excluded that he received a regular gift of wash cloth from the members of the congregation (as he was not married at the time of the document, so no wife wove for him, he had to rely on them for that).Studiolumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06377777909296284368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-64053406099892499362011-05-04T10:30:20.045+02:002011-05-04T10:30:20.045+02:00To be quite honest, without the context, I would r...To be quite honest, without the context, I would read it <i>ručnjk</i> = ručník = "wash cloth". Then again, it doesn't make much sense in the context, plus the fourth letter really looks a lot more like the other u's than n'. But the fifth letter is j which stands for the long vowel [i:] and the vowel combination -uí- is virtually non-existent in either Slovak or Czech. I'll check all the historical and dialectal dictionaries, but for now, ručník seems like the safest bet.bulbulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14505565281151328789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-40275745648004072182011-05-03T18:37:32.215+02:002011-05-03T18:37:32.215+02:00Thank you very much! And what do you think ručujka...Thank you very much! And what do you think <i>ručujka</i> can be in §.8 of the pastor’s provision?Studiolumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06377777909296284368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-42433224195678396432011-05-03T18:24:02.941+02:002011-05-03T18:24:02.941+02:00(z konča kapustnjsk.)
kapustnjsk most likely stan...<b>(z konča kapustnjsk.)</b><br /><br /><i>kapustnjsk</i> most likely stands for <i>kapustnísk</i> (GEN.PL), NOM.PL being <i>kapustnisko</i>, so "at one end of the cabbage patches". <i>z konča</i> may also refer to the far end of something, in a context like this, usually from the vantage point of the church.<br /><br /><i>Cantacye</i> stands for <i>kantácie</i> (syn. <i>festivácie</i>) which refers to either to going door to door and singing Christmas carols for a small sum and/or food or the proceedings therefrom, essentially a Christmas bonus for the village teacher.bulbulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14505565281151328789noreply@blogger.com