tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post2279084668604163128..comments2024-03-19T21:41:42.835+01:00Comments on Poemas del río Wang: Children’s GamesStudiolumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06377777909296284368noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-65479119234832314702011-05-14T23:04:31.922+02:002011-05-14T23:04:31.922+02:00I noticed your post in Hungarian, Studiolum. I hav...I noticed your post in Hungarian, <i>Studiolum</i>. I have few possible additions here. They call <i>aşıq</i> as <i>альчики</i> in Russian, I found it from Azerbaijani-Russian dictionary and googled it. <a href="http://www.fergananews.com/article.php?id=4123" rel="nofollow">One page</a> is from Uzbekistan with some photos. Another post with interesting photos of knockle-bone monuments is <a href="http://damir-sh.livejournal.com/518249.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.Arazhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14791220527752500079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-4982115161838949102011-05-12T21:22:22.587+02:002011-05-12T21:22:22.587+02:00All right, I will provide it, although it will be ...All right, I will provide it, although it will be certainly not as perfect as your summary would be, given that Chinese is not my mother tongue and even my English is not as polished as yours…Studiolumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06377777909296284368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-64073889387797351222011-05-12T18:07:05.065+02:002011-05-12T18:07:05.065+02:00Apparently it's called "抓石子" (zhuā s...Apparently it's called "抓石子" (zhuā shízǐr) in China. (And boys play that too!) My English being notably deficient in verbs related with hand motion, I'll content myself with indicating some Chinese-language links, so that someone more conversant in the two languages can provide a résumé:<br /><br />http://hi.baidu.com/nfcr/blog/item/79fd3dcc11e7ac1b01e9280e.html<br /><br />http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4d30da0c0100airl.htmlminus273http://www.minus273.eunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-57379792688473340842011-05-12T10:24:27.884+02:002011-05-12T10:24:27.884+02:00Silk Road is the only answer coming to my mind imm...<i>Silk Road</i> is the only answer coming to my mind immediately. The fact that it is a girls' game would increase the diffusion, in my humble opinion.Arazhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14791220527752500079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-43085789218468303772011-05-12T05:38:39.748+02:002011-05-12T05:38:39.748+02:00I'm still puzzled about the Korean five-stone ...I'm still puzzled about the Korean five-stone game tradition - which seems to be quite old, with <a href="http://tour.junggu.seoul.kr/tour/eng/h02_cultural/h23_exper_01.jsp" rel="nofollow">each Korean province developing its own name for this girls' game</a> which is generically known as gonggi. But there is definitely some continuum of five-stone game traditions, stretching across South and SE Asia (Kallangal, Anchangal in villages of Tamilandu;<br />Achenagandlu, Achamgilla, Chintapikkalata or Gachakayalata played by girls in Andhra Pradesh; Eidu Kallinnna Atta in Karnataka; Fatranim, a girls' game in Goa; Txwv - a girls' game of Hmong; Singaporean five stones; Batu Seremban in Malaysia). I couldn't find any refs its being played by the Chinese or the Arabs, but Kugelach is known to Israelis and Ashik to Bulgarians (of course that's a Turkic for knucklebone). But just a short distance away, in Hungary or Russia, it's like never existed at all. What sort of cultural diffusion would have a let a trace so long and so convoluted?MOCKBAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05150628026789690963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-45531970075950608602011-05-11T20:59:56.946+02:002011-05-11T20:59:56.946+02:00Sorry, Москва, I have just seen that your last com...Sorry, Москва, I have just seen that your last comment went to the spam folder (twice). Now I have saved it, but fortunately Araz has read it in the info e-mail and replied to it in the meantime.Studiolumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06377777909296284368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-2397163420719776492011-05-11T20:17:59.206+02:002011-05-11T20:17:59.206+02:00A quick update - a comment by my facebook friend f...A quick update - a comment by my facebook friend from Israel: 'When I was a kid it was played quite widely. Marbles were more popular, but every child would know what "five stones" is and every toy store had them. I don't know how it is today.'Arazhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14791220527752500079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-74011728507937053422011-05-11T08:09:36.539+02:002011-05-11T08:09:36.539+02:00By the way, is it really a coincidence that the pl...By the way, is it really a coincidence that the players are females in case of also the Roman statue and French painting? Thanks for bringing it up, <i>MOCKBA</i>, I learned so many new things. Studiolum connects our worlds.Arazhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14791220527752500079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-13564083512624627622011-05-11T07:59:03.386+02:002011-05-11T07:59:03.386+02:00The similarities... no actually identity is amazin...The similarities... no actually identity is amazing. That is what I call a small sign of common humanity. One can see it from the <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJHZmCPJL7U" rel="nofollow">Turkish video</a> above and <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJHZmCPJL7U" rel="nofollow">Korean video</a> you posted. It seems that in a Turkic tradition the integral part of the game is moving stones through an arc made of palms while one stone is in the air.<br /><br />As for knuckle-bone, we call it <i>aşıq</i> (why? possible link with <i>astragaloi</i>?) in Azerbaijan. As far as I know, these are used for throwing games developing aiming and accuracy, rather than speed and coordination. Those were even found in IX-X century layers during a <a href="http://www.azerbaijanarcheology.com/2010/10/orta-esr-semkir-seher-yerinden-tapilmis-sumuk-memulati-haqqinda/" rel="nofollow">recent archeological excavations</a> around <i>Shamkir</i>.Arazhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14791220527752500079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-59630625330785493072011-05-11T04:10:46.823+02:002011-05-11T04:10:46.823+02:00An update. Firstly my Argentnian friend says that ...An update. Firstly my Argentnian friend says that it is exactly the same game indeed.<br /><br />Then, <a href="http://www.thunderbay.org/article/yugoslavia-serbian-5-stones-171.asp" rel="nofollow">this site</a> says that it is a game known in the Balkans, thought to have been brought by the Greeks from Troy.<br /><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knucklebones" rel="nofollow">A Wiki article</a> has an image of a Roman statue of a child playing "astragaloi".<br /><br />But it is also found far outside of the Greco-Roman sphere. In <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EeaOfZL9aw" rel="nofollow">this video</a>, it is played in Korea.MOCKBAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05150628026789690963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-36159061879451065652011-05-11T02:33:26.072+02:002011-05-11T02:33:26.072+02:00Спасибо, Араз! The similarity is truly amazing ......Спасибо, Араз! The similarity is truly amazing ... но в правилах кроме беш и даш и ушак мне ничего не звенит - are they really the same rules as e.g. these? <br />http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payana<br />If there is continuity, would it span some wider Mediterranean belt? I definitely never seen anything of this sort before, although there are some very vague parallels with a Russian "throwing" game, ножичкиMOCKBAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05150628026789690963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-28247319285577460582011-05-10T23:04:20.445+02:002011-05-10T23:04:20.445+02:00Here are the rules. Beshdash was obviously popular...Here are <a href="http://az.wikipedia.org/wiki/Be%C5%9Fda%C5%9F" rel="nofollow">the rules</a>. Beshdash was obviously popular in Eastern Anatolia. A brief search revealed a more illustrative <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJHZmCPJL7U" rel="nofollow">short video</a> from Turkey.Arazhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14791220527752500079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-43393201319525969692011-05-10T22:47:30.612+02:002011-05-10T22:47:30.612+02:00I didn't get it first. If it is about a game w...I didn't get it first. If it is about a game with throwing small stones, we call it <i>beşdaş</i> i.e. five stones in Azerbaijan. I was surprised when traveling to Uzbekistan in 1986 as a boy I saw Uzbek girls playing the same game.Arazhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14791220527752500079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-13869087685361161412011-05-10T20:30:15.867+02:002011-05-10T20:30:15.867+02:00P.S. Perhaps this is something you could openly as...P.S. Perhaps this is something you could openly ask the Argentine readers here in the blog in a post, eventually by resuming what you have found out this far.Studiolumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06377777909296284368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-47222895773306852752011-05-10T20:11:08.509+02:002011-05-10T20:11:08.509+02:00I’ve never heard of it either, but don’t worry, af...I’ve never heard of it either, but don’t worry, after a fast search I see that most Argentines do not know it. Only <a href="http://elrincondepipina.blogspot.com/2009/01/la-payana.html" rel="nofollow">elder people</a> remember of having played it themselves. <a href="http://es-la.connect.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=120617734654189" rel="nofollow">Here is</a> a detailed description with a charming modern photo, and <a href="http://esbuenocomunicarnos.blogspot.com/2010/11/la-payana-juego-infantil.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>a shorter one, but with one good vintage photo (unfortunately a very small one). I will keep it in mind and whenever I run across a photo of it in some old album, I will post it.Studiolumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06377777909296284368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-6710952986947784802011-05-10T02:34:27.816+02:002011-05-10T02:34:27.816+02:00Nice selection, Studiolum! Of course the photo stu...Nice selection, Studiolum! Of course the photo studio toys and outfits must have been *much* fancier than in real life... not just the pace of the game much slower!<br /><br />In any case ... do you have any old child games photos from Argentina? You see, my latest fascination has been with the history of La Payanca tango - and this payanca used to designate a gaucho's rope for trowing lassos hundred years ago, but somehow turned into a game with throwing pebbles or wooden blocks some 50 years later ... and then disappeared from the language altogether (more recently it was called tinenti). I never heard of this game before!MOCKBAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05150628026789690963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-47306474789524446012011-05-09T10:52:29.566+02:002011-05-09T10:52:29.566+02:00Thanks a lot. Check back soon!Thanks a lot. Check back soon!Studiolumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06377777909296284368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4565845984512808077.post-41073165863559059862011-05-09T10:36:52.328+02:002011-05-09T10:36:52.328+02:00Wonderful indeed.Wonderful indeed.Blanca Oraa Moyuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15333732755735044749noreply@blogger.com